NJT - The Way Too Slow

February 17th 2008 06:04 pm

A friend of mine recently had to make a trip from Hoboken to Chatham, on the Morris & Essex Line, on a Saturday morning. He complained that the trip took over an hour. That sounded way too long for a 23.5 mile trip, so I checked the schedule. My friend was right, the trip is scheduled for 64 minutes, an average speed of 22.0 mph.

So I checked a couple old schedules, and I saw that the trip was much faster in the past. In 1985, the trip took 35 minutes, an average speed of 40.3 mph. And in 1946, a local train, including stops at Harrison, Roseville Ave, and Grove St (none of which have service anymore), took 46 minutes, an average speed of 30.7 mph.

To summarize:
1946: 46 minutes, 30.7 mph.
1985: 35 minutes, 40.3 mph.
2008: 64 minutes, 22.0 mph.

So our modern, high-tech equipment can’t even match the times of the old trains of 62 years ago.

While I was at it, I took a look at the Northeast Corridor schedules from Trenton to New York Penn Station on a Saturday morning:

1979: 73 minutes, 47.8 mph (local).
2008: 80 minutes, 43.6 mph (express).
2008: 94 minutes, 37.1 mph (local).

Note that today’s express trains are slower than 1979’s local trains. And the local trains take over 20 minutes longer than 1979’s trains.

How can NJ Transit justify schedules which are so much slower than in the past?

Posted by Bob Scheurle under Express trains & Schedules & Weekend service.

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28 Responses to “NJT - The Way Too Slow”

  1. gmusser responded on 17 Feb 2008 at 6:38 pm #

    Wow, this is GREAT information. Why don’t you contact the local papers with it?
    George

  2. stuw6 responded on 17 Feb 2008 at 7:03 pm #

    I dare anyone to compare the old Boonton Line travel times from Walnut Street to Hoboken compared to what they are now. I used to board a train at 7:51 and would arrive into Hoboken as early as 8:10 on the express and 8:20 on the local. Now, the trip takes almost 36 minutes by the schedule and closer to 40 minutes in real-time on average. And how many miles is it? About 12?

  3. Eine Kleine Multi-level responded on 18 Feb 2008 at 5:18 am #

    There are of course three extra stops on the NEC that weren’t there in the 70s and 80s, those being Hamilton, EWR and Secaucus. That doesn’t excuse the bad performance, though.

    What other excuses does NJT have at its beck and call? Longer trains, push-pull versus MU, heavier equipment thanks to FRA requirements, need to “guarantee connections” at places like SEC and TRE?

  4. Bob Scheurle responded on 18 Feb 2008 at 8:02 am #

    “There are of course three extra stops on the NEC that weren’t there in the 70s and 80s…”

    1979: 73 minutes, 10 stops.
    2008: 80 minutes, 9 stops.

    So much for that theory.

    And to make matters worse, the additional 4 stops made by local trains takes an additional 14 minutes:
    2008: 80 minutes, 9 stops.
    2008: 94 minutes, 13 stops.

  5. stuw6 responded on 18 Feb 2008 at 9:53 am #

    I’ve been commuting into NYC via Hoboken for the past 15 years of my life. First from Wayne, then from Clifton and finally from Montclair. In my opinion, the problem is not longer trains or slower equipment. It’s maintenance and overcrowding. When a 3-coach set pulls in and only 2 doors open, there is going to be a delay. When it takes ten minutes to go from the tunnel in Hoboken to the terminal (one mile), there is going to be a delay. When an Eastbound Montclair train has to wait 8 minutes at a stop signal to merge onto the M&E at Ampere because an M&E train headed into Broad is 8 minutes late, there is going to be a delay. When a conductor is busy punching me a ticket for a $2.25 step up fee delaying his ability to open the doors, there is going to be a delay.

    Why is it that whenever the government is involved, economies of scale are not achieved? The trains are overcrowded, overpriced, slow as hell and rarely on time.

    As this recession deepens, it will be interesting to see how well NJT does without the additional revenue. I guess they’ll just raise fares again to cover the shortfall.

  6. Bob Scheurle responded on 18 Feb 2008 at 12:15 pm #

    “Why is it that whenever the government is involved, economies of scale are not achieved? The trains are… slow as hell and rarely on time.”

    It didn’t used to be that way. I believe that the overly-generous use of schedule padding has resulted in schedules that don’t challenge the employees or the equipment. Combined with a 6 minute “on-time” tolerance, I believe the result is an overall lackadaisical attitude towards schedule timekeeping throughout all levels of NJ Transit.

  7. coffeelen responded on 18 Feb 2008 at 8:42 pm #

    On-time? What’s that? On a holiday schedule, they can’t manage to get it done on time. I was one of the unfortunate few who had to work today. NJT was running on a weekend schedule today. I got the 5:36 A.M. MidTown Direct out of Chatham. They had 4 out of 10 cars open. We made all the “milk train” stops and we got into NY Penn at 6:46 A.M. An hour and ten minutes. No explanations, just slow–and at 4 stops the infamous refrain “check end doors”.

    The way home was even worse. I got the 5:11 PM MidTown Direct out of Penn Sta. to Chatham. 6 cars open this time and they had to open another two since it was standing room only. Let’s run the railroad for the benefit of the crew, please. We got going at 5:18 PM—they announced “we are stopped at a stop signal, when we have a more favorable signal, we’ll move”—like maybe a green signal? How can this be on a holiday schedule? Pure ineptitude. It wasn’t until we got to Summit that they announced the stop–every other stop was not announced. What we did hear at Maplewood, Millburn and Summit was: “CHECK END DOORS”. We arrived at Chatham at 6:23 PM. Disgraceful.

    Bob Scheurle is right: When you pad schedules the way NJT does, it creates a lackadaisical culture where manana is just fine. To paraphrase one of the late Peggy Lee’s songs, NJT’s motto should be: “Manana is good enuf for me”.

  8. Joe Versaggi responded on 19 Feb 2008 at 7:52 am #

    To pay the highest monthly fares in the country, and put up with this nonsense is totally unacceptable. New York and Illinois models should be followed as the current high cost / poor quality socialist model evidently doesn’t work anymore. Notice the two DBOM Light Rail operations run far better. Reduce all of NJT to a regional funding authority with a board completely independent of DOT, and spin-off rail and bus operations into separate companies. Perhaps if their operations were run by transit professionals instead of political, Peter-Principled, lackadaisical hacks, service would be better.

  9. Jishnu Mukerji responded on 19 Feb 2008 at 10:25 am #

    We of course have Shirley DeLibero to thank for maybe 10 minutes of the added time. While she was the chief of NJT she had significant padding added to all train schedules in order to try to make the on time performance look better than it was back then.

    Other factors that causes schedules to get slower include least common denominator scheduling. Since NJT seems to be unable to assign specific type of equipment to specific runs they are unable to take advantage of the superior performance of certain types of equipment in their schedules. All schedules are drawn as if they were going to be run by the worst performing equipment available on the route and hence the schedules are slower for many trains than they really need to be. The decision to use push-pulls instead of EMUs plays a significant role in slowing service down specially of local trains with frequent stops. The heavier multi-level cars being deployed do not improve the schedule situation at all and indeed has further detrimental effect. At least they are comfortable and quiet so that people can rest while they take a slow leisurely ride :).

    On the whole NJT has been hampered by lack of quality leadership on the operations and mechanical side of the house. Until that problem is fixed the rest will be hard to fix. Given the state of affairs in Trenton at least I am not holding my breath, since they have even bigger incompetence problems to deal with up there.

  10. Eine Kleine Multi-level responded on 20 Feb 2008 at 8:18 am #

    Why is it that whenever the government is involved, economies of scale are not achieved?

    Depends on the government. There are lots of private-sector examples of failure to achieve economies of scale also.

  11. stuw6 responded on 20 Feb 2008 at 10:49 am #

    EKML - That is totally true. Unfortunately, I can remember a time when NJT would win awards for their customer service and on time arrivals/departures. They would even brag about it with banners hanging from the rafters at Hoboken terminal proclaiming their awards. At that time (mid 90’s) my trains would often arrive early based on schedules with less jimmy time built in. If my memory serves me right they had gone like 6 years without a fare increase as well at the time.

    I used to brag about how great it was to commute to NY via NJT. Now I tell people that they are better off seeking employment locally, especially if they want to spend time with their family. It really is a great shame how much things have slipped.

    I now commute into NY via the Montclair-Boonton line every Wednesday. Since they swapped the peak Hoboken and Midtown Direct trains (7:48 and 7:53) on the schedule, the 7:48 now gets in to NYPS at the scheduled time that the prior 7:53 was slotted to arrive. Quite frankly, it’s just plain embarrassing.

    Sorry to be such a ball buster, but it pains me to see so many NJT employees who can just stand around in Hoboken terminal in the middle of the peak rush times when they could be helping the conductors flip the seats, or make announcements, etc.

  12. geoffrey012 responded on 04 Mar 2008 at 2:30 pm #

    Why are you comparing Saturday schedules when you well know that there’s a major signal project underway that is intended to dramatically speed up schedules when complete. In fact, I think that NJ-ARP has written about this. And that you’re in favor of it, and that you’re in favor of slowing down trains on the weekends to get the work done properly and safely and not tie up the weekday schedules.

    Come on, NJ-ARP…let’s be realistic here! You’re never going to get any real support for transit when you pick on people like this. Do you want to be taken seriously or do you want to complain?

  13. Bob Scheurle responded on 04 Mar 2008 at 2:35 pm #

    OK, but I don’t know anything about a major signal project. Could you provide some details?

    But you must agree that there’s been a general lengthening of schedules over the last decade. The trains were slowed down before any recent signal project.

  14. geoffrey012 responded on 04 Mar 2008 at 3:32 pm #

    There is a major Amtrak signal project designed to upgrade the traffic within the tunnel and should increase capacity into Penn Station. It is being done on weekends. This is why weekend service on the Montclair-Boonton line is being delayed. (Now that the town of Montclair no longer objects to weekend service.) I tried to google it, but everything I found is old. The project is supposed to be complete in late 2008.

  15. Bob Scheurle responded on 04 Mar 2008 at 3:47 pm #

    That shouldn’t affect the time it takes to go from Hoboken to Chatham.

  16. Bob Scheurle responded on 05 Mar 2008 at 1:06 pm #

    Since there was an objection to using the Saturday schedules, here’s Trenton to NY Penn Station on a weekday at about 11 AM:

    1979: 72 minutes, 9 stops.
    2008: 89 minutes, 13 stops.

    How can 4 extra stops (Hamilton, Edison, Newark Airport, and Secaucus) possibly take an extra 17 minutes, especially with our modern, high-tech equipment? And there were several low-level platforms in 1979!

  17. finsuburbia responded on 09 Mar 2008 at 1:32 pm #

    Bob,

    You know about the speed restrictions on the NEC for tie replacement right?

    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gTCkCJtPCDJ3dAPwB0rZb46TvdEwD8V31KQO0

    If you want to do a better comparison, please use an October ‘07 schedule or at least compare westbound times (because, IIRC, the restrictions are primarily on track 1).

  18. finsuburbia responded on 09 Mar 2008 at 2:38 pm #

    Also lets not forget that 1979 was before the portal bridge caught fire.

  19. Bob Scheurle responded on 09 Mar 2008 at 4:50 pm #

    I have an idea. You show me a run where the current trains are as fast as 1979. OK? Sheesh.

  20. finsuburbia responded on 09 Mar 2008 at 5:03 pm #

    Getting a little flustered there Bob? The reasons that the trains are slower now are largely due to factors that are either beyond NJT’s “control” (i.e. portal bridge fire, concrete tie replacement) or are not necessarily a bad thing (more stations). What is the point you’re trying to make (at least as far as the NEC is concerned)…?

  21. finsuburbia responded on 09 Mar 2008 at 5:11 pm #

    Also, I’m curious, but did the 1985 Hoboken to Chatham train have the exact same stop pattern as the 2008 one?

  22. finsuburbia responded on 09 Mar 2008 at 5:19 pm #

    Wow, Bob, Wow.

    You really have Chutzpah you know. I just checked the schedule. Yes the trip from Hoboken to Chatham takes 64 minutes. You neglected to mention, however, that the reason for this is that there is only one train that actually goes directly from Hoboken to Chatham on Saturday. All the others require a transfer either at Newark Broad or Secaucus. Of course its going to take longer.

    Honestly Bob, why did you omit that rather significant detail?

  23. finsuburbia responded on 09 Mar 2008 at 5:20 pm #

    That, of course, would not have been an issue in 1946 and 1985 as that was pre MidtownDirect….

  24. Bob Scheurle responded on 09 Mar 2008 at 7:10 pm #

    The point is that almost every trip takes longer now than it did 10, 20, 60, or even 100* years ago. I’m just getting tired of looking up old schedules when they all prove the exact same thing!

    And if the stops are different, that’s the whole damn point. They’ve practically eliminated express trains, so all the trains have turned into milk runs. Or do you enjoy waiting 2 hours for a train that makes 23 stops?

    * Gladstone-Hoboken fastest trip - 1901: 1hr13min; 2008: 1hr17min.

  25. finsuburbia responded on 09 Mar 2008 at 9:12 pm #

    The 2:58 pm, 3:55 pm and the 6:04 pm weekday trains all make the HOB-Chatham trip in 40 minutes. The 12:41 am makes it in 39 min. Yes that is slower than 1985 but its faster than 1946 (plus are you seriously freaking out over 4-5 min?) Moreover, its hard to compare them as the express trains are now split between HOB and NYP. In fact, the fastest express (4:50 pm) makes it from NYP to Chatham in 40 min (compare that to the total trip time from Midtown in 1985 using the uptown PATH to Hoboken).

    I really don’t understand this charge that “they’ve practically eliminated express trains.” There’s plenty on the schedule that I see (and take on my new NEC eastbound to M&E westbound commute).

    And if you are getting tired of defending your position from legitimate criticism then maybe you need to get out of the advocacy business.

  26. Bob Scheurle responded on 10 Mar 2008 at 5:31 am #

    Let’s see. This topic was about weekend schedules and how the schedules are slower. Then someone said, no we can’t look at weekend schedules, we need to look at weekday schedules. So I showed how the weekday off-peak trains were slower, too. Now you cherry-pick a few trains, mainly in the peak hour, but even those trains take 5 minutes longer to get to Chatham than they used to; if you look at the whole trip to Dover, they take 10 minutes longer than they used to.

    Thank you for proving my point.

  27. finsuburbia responded on 10 Mar 2008 at 12:41 pm #

    So how frequent were these weekend expresses? I honestly don’t know because I was very young in 1985 and don’t have access to schedules from then.

    Why did you willfully omit the fact that the current Hoboken-Chatham weekend trip requires a transfer on all but one trip whereas trips in 1946 and 1985 did not? You could have pointed that out and then complained about the lack of direct service instead, which would have been more legitimate. Instead, however, you made it seem like the train takes 64 minutes to get from Hoboken to Chatham, which it does not.

  28. Bob Scheurle responded on 10 Mar 2008 at 4:57 pm #

    The Dover-Hoboken express trains ran every hour from about 7:30 AM - 11:00 PM on Saturdays and 8:30 AM - 7:00 PM on Sundays. They operated express between Summit and Newark, covering that portion in 15 minutes. The whole trip took 60 to 62 minutes.

    On weekdays mid-day, there was hourly express service from Dover, and half-hourly local service from Morristown. In the evening, there was westbound express service every half hour until 10:20 PM. (Evening express service ends at 7:25 PM now.)

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