RPA says T.H.E. tunnel should extend to East Side
March 24th 2008 09:06 am
The proposed second rail tunnel to New York City should go all the way to Manhattan’s East Side, according to a planning study that will be released Tuesday. Instead of ending at Penn Station, the tunnel would reach Madison Avenue with a possible link to Grand Central.
The Regional Plan Association, a transportation advocacy group, also recommends adding a light-rail loop to NJTransit’s Access to the Region’s Core project to increase midtown circulation that would accommodate new Manhattan development.
“New York and New Jersey need the same access over the Hudson River that Long Islanders will realize when the LIRR starts arriving at Grand Central in 2015 — shaving times off already long commutes and getting to their jobs faster,” said Jeffrey Zupan, senior transportation fellow for RPA and the report’s primary author.
The three-part analysis, the result of a multi-year research effort called, “The New Trans-Hudson Tunnel: Making it Work Best,” says the extension would shave approximately 20 minutes per day off the commutes of 30,000 New Jersey commuters arriving at Penn Station but destined for the East Side.
Jishnu Mukerji responded on 24 Mar 2008 at 12:33 pm #
So the contention is that the deep dungeon station should be built under Madison Ave at 34th St instead of between 6th and 7th Ave. under 34th St.? I guess we will know for sure only after we get to see the full report.
As it stands now unless the 34th St station is raised at least 50 feet from its current depth, the lower level tracks have no hope of reaching Madison Ave. without running afoul of the water tunnel. Which leaves only the upper level tracks as a possibility for such an extension.
Eagerly awaiting the full report before posting more elaborate comments.
Bob Scheurle responded on 24 Mar 2008 at 2:15 pm #
The report is available online at http://www.rpa.org/pdf/RPAARCandNYCReport.pdf (771 KB PDF).
Jishnu Mukerji responded on 24 Mar 2008 at 6:21 pm #
After reading the actual report it makes much more sense. The proposal for placing the East Side station at Madison and 44th/45th does provide a means for getting more people closer to where they want to go. It also keeps open the possibility of extension northwards and perhaps eventually to connect to the tracks coming out of GCT, again at enormous expense of course.
Since it is still a stub end station it is probably OK even if just the upper level of NYPSE is extended. The one problem that has not been addressed sufficiently is the cost of construction as far as I could tell. The cost of operation has been estimated and justified. Still need to read it in a bit more detail to form a concrete opinion of the whole thing.
Bob Scheurle responded on 24 Mar 2008 at 6:50 pm #
This illustrates a disadvantage of NJT’s decision to completely separate the new tunnel from the current NY Penn Station. Trains operating to the old station, e.g., Northeast Corridor trains, would not have access to the Madison Ave / Grand Central station. An integrated design would be much more flexible.
Joe Versaggi responded on 25 Mar 2008 at 7:31 am #
There is no reason why NEC trains cannot run through the new tunnels, and in fact, they should. I do not like the idea of dual-mode MU’s or locomotives running to the Bunker station which has no open area on the far west side to ventilate fires, with fuel tanks to make them far worse.
Eine Kleine Multi-level responded on 25 Mar 2008 at 3:14 pm #
I don’t understand the Madison/45th proposal. Looks like a more expensive way to implement the old Alternative G.
Joe Versaggi responded on 26 Mar 2008 at 7:34 am #
As though Alernative “G” isn’t expensive enough, which is so dead the stated costs are still in 2003 dollars, to say nothing of the fact that Metro North isn’t about to allow their Holy Grail to be disrupted with NJT trains and catenary (they wouldn’t even section off 5 tracks for the LIRR), this has got to cost $2 to $3 Billion more. Don’t expect a dime from New York - they have other priorities that they can’t fund, a Jersey rail project isn’t among them. It’s a fantasy.
Bob Scheurle responded on 26 Mar 2008 at 9:50 am #
$2 to $3 billion = just 1 week in Iraq.
Joe Versaggi responded on 26 Mar 2008 at 10:11 am #
So ? Iraq money is not in Trenton, nor in Albany, nor in the FTA transit account, which is to be slashed to overcome shortages in the Highway account, nor is the Pentagon going to chip in either. Iraq is debt, financed by China.
Bob Scheurle responded on 26 Mar 2008 at 10:53 am #
Just trying to put it into perspective.
Joe Versaggi responded on 26 Mar 2008 at 11:21 am #
Then what ?
Eine Kleine Multi-level responded on 26 Mar 2008 at 2:08 pm #
Federal debt held by foreign nations can be viewed here, for the record. This isn’t, as it appears to me, the proper venue to discuss that war, but a lot of dough could have been saved if the next target (Iran) was dealt with expediently and there wasn’t such a hurry to institute democracy that, as we all can see, resulted in a pro-Iranian government being elected.